Interview with Sunil Pithwa, Senior UX Designer at Aviva

We interviewed Sunil to ask about his unique interests and experiences and how they help him craft good user experiences. There are so many applicable tips that Sunil has given us..! Bon appétit 😋

Sunil Pithwa

1. Do you find similarities in cooking and crafting user experiences?

Yes! I guess it’s all the different parts that have to come together to create that end piece.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but the more you do it, the better the outcome, and the simplest of things is often the best.

I see cooking as a creative outlet for me because when you’re working in UX you don’t get to be as creative as you like. So when I cook, I do so in a very improvised way: I pick one ingredient and see what happens. I have a lot of fun doing that. It’s also a nice creative outlet if you’re sitting at a computer all day — actually doing something with your hands like making the food, the art on the plate, or photography.

— There’s a lot of trial and error in cooking. Does this also happen in UX?

Yes, for sure, with everything. There’s no one answer. For example, working on a project last year, we had four testing sessions but one hundred different versions just iterating one section. So iteration is a big thing in order to find out what works and doesn’t work.

Cooking and designing user experiences share a lot in common

2. How did your experience in a customer-facing role at Apple help you as a UX designer?

I think it helps in so many ways, such as being able to talk to random people. I worked for Apple for over six years in Kingston and Covent Garden, and I probably talked to tens of thousands of people of different ages and with different problems.

You’re there to listen and understand where they’re coming from, empathise and figure out solutions.

You’re actively listening first, then you’re solutionising. That definitely helps in UX when you’re doing research or in meetings. Also, just being able to go up to people when you’re guerilla-testing is really key.

Other things that were helpful include troubleshooting and understanding the product back to front. We were never taught it at Apple, but we were all so passionate that we learned about it. Coming from a retail background, that speed of learning and listening helps in UX as you’re dealing with people, their emotions, and motivations.

Start with actively listening what customers (= users) want, then find right solutions.

3. I know you do standup comedy, have you managed to weave any UX jokes into your comedy sets?

It’s my job to turn random topics into something, completely unscripted.

I’m just learning improv comedy and I’ve been going to open-mics for three or four months. You’re onstage with a group of people you may or may not know and you ask the audience for a topic. It’s my job to turn that into something, completely unscripted, and the other person in the scene continues that story.

This week, though, I’ve been going to a stand-up course and working on writing jokes for that, but I haven’t thought about doing UX jokes. There are so many funny things that happen in the life of a UXer that I enjoy, but there are so many other crazy things that I’ve done. I don’t know if UX would connect with an audience…unless it was a UX audience!

4. What is something you’ve learned recently about delivering good UX?

Something which is underrated in UX is getting to know your stakeholders.

Something which is underrated in UX is getting to know your stakeholders. We always focus on the methodologies, how things go together, and talking to developers, but getting to know your stakeholders as your coworkers and/or friends is important. The ultimate goal is to put a product out and have it be successful. However, there are different motivations, so it’s important to understand the people involved and what their metrics are in terms of success. As UXers we’re happy when the product goes out but for other stakeholders, success could be measured in different ways, so it’s important to understand both sides of the coin.

5. Do you have any advice for those moving into UX?

I recommend talking to people in general, reaching out to people on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Be inquisitive. Some people are afraid to ask for help. My philosophy is that I started somewhere and I only came up to where I am now with the help of other people, so don’t be afraid to ask questions.

The Dots is a good network for creative industries with tonnes of professionals willing to give their time!

And once your career changes, you don’t really stop. I’m always looking for more information, reading, talking to people, doing events. I’ve never stopped working at being a UXer.

*On 20th Oct, Sunil is hosting a panel discussion ‘Getting into UX’ ONLINE Subscribe to TC TV and watch it for FREE 😎!!

— Do you have a future career path?

I’d love to manage a team — mentoring and motivating — or product manager, running a product. Through lockdown, I’ve been doing a lot of events moderating panel talks almost weekly and hosting a few conferences. That’s a bit of a side-hustle which is unexpected and cool.

— Have you thought about working for agencies?

I’ve worked for start-ups, agencies, and now client-side for Aviva. I like the client-side because you get to go in-depth with those company products and you’re working towards a common goal. It’s the same with start-ups, but there’s a lot more going on. In a start-up, there’s more pressure because you’re answering to investors, with more speed involved. For example, I created an app and two weeks later our CTO had built the app and we were live-testing it. At a larger company, it’s a bit slower — six-months to a couple of years. Agencies are great because you get to work on loads of different things, with interesting companies, designers, and developers. Each one has its merits. For me, it’s more about what the actual product is.

6. You have an ethnographic research background. How did you transfer the research skills you had in order to be a UX Designer. What other skills do you need?

Coming from a research angle is a strong way to enter it. Understanding research, in terms of going out and doing it, is important. Or someone gives you a report and you can understand how they did it and ask them questions — that’s a key skill. In terms of becoming a designer, the important part is that you need to understand the research. This is something everyone can pick up: being able to understand research and formulate ideas to go through a process.

7. What is your philosophy of designing a user experience?

Stand up for good design and stand up for UX.

Fight for your users and back yourself up with research and due diligence.

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Interviewed by Misato Ehara

Edited by Misato Ehara and Sunil Pithwa

Illustrations by Misato Ehara

Edited with Google docs

Published on 7 Oct 2020

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Interviewee: Sunil Pithwa is a Senior UX Designer at Aviva in London. He works on new products and quote & payment journeys. Before Aviva he worked at Movebubble and Pancentric designing apps and client sites. Outside of his day job Sunil has become known as a conference host and panel moderator. He has moderated panels weekly for TechCircus since April 2020 and has hosted the annual JAM product conference five times, once even being in Barcelona. The furthest away he’s taught a workshop was in Kathmandu, Nepal while on holiday.

He loves meeting and talking to designers of all levels, giving feedback on portfolios, and mentoring junior designers. He is forever curious and challenging himself. Most recently he has taken to learning how to longboard, however he’s still figuring out how to stop without falling and hurting himself.

He loves to cook and be creative in the kitchen. You can find some of his creations on his Instagram (@rereality)

You can also find him posting on Twitter (@SunilUXD)

Interviewer:Misato Ehara is founder of The UX Review, former design Strategist at Gensler. She is currently completing a Masters in Curating Contemporary Design and is open to UX research roles starting in October 2020.

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